181 The 4 Pitfalls You Must Avoid to Find Success In Practice and Life

Welcome to the KC CHIROpulse Podcast.  

This week’s topic: The 4 Pitfalls You Must Avoid to Find Success In Practice and Life

The KC CHIROpulse Podcast is designed for Chiropractic professionals ready to elevate their practice to new heights, and is hosted by Kats Consultants CEO Dr Michael Perusich and Dr Troy Fox.  Both docs are seasoned experts in Chiropractic care and business development.  This podcast provides invaluable insights and actionable strategies to help you create a flourishing and sustainable Chiropractic business.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How these 4 important aspects of practice life can make you or break you
• How to find balance between practice and your personal life
• Why your vision and goals must be aligned to lead you to success
• How becoming a slave to your practice can destroy your chance for success
• …and so much more…

In each episode of KC CHIROpulse, we delve into crucial aspects of building a successful Chiropractic practice, covering topics such as establishing a strong foundation, adopting a patient-centric approach, mastering marketing techniques, achieving financial fitness, fostering effective team building and leadership, integrating technology and innovation, and navigating common challenges in the field.

Whether you're a seasoned chiropractor or just starting your practice, the KC CHIROpulse Podcast offers a wealth of knowledge and practical advice to help you navigate the intricate world of Chiropractic business. Join us on this journey as we explore proven strategies, share success stories, and connect with industry experts to empower you in your pursuit of building a thriving Chiropractic practice.

Don't miss out on the latest insights and expert guidance. Subscribe now and unlock the secrets to taking your Chiropractic practice to the next level. Your success is our priority at Kats Chiropractic Business Advisors.

DISCLAIMER:  The information presented in this broadcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to offer legal, investment, accounting, or medical advice.  Seek the consultation of a professional for advice in those areas. And remember…your results using this information may be different than described.

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Transcript

Dr. Michael Perusich: 0:00

Doctors, did you know there are four pitfalls you must avoid to be successful in practice and in life? Hi everybody. Welcome to the KC Chiro Pulse podcast brought to you by Kats Consultants and Chiro Health USA. I'm Dr. Michael Paroosh, your host, and I'm joined by my co host, Dr. Troy Fox. Troy, the four pitfalls that you have to avoid to be a huge success. You and I banner this kind of stuff around all the time.

Dr. Troy Fox: 0:28

Oh, yeah, for sure. And I hate pitfalls and I love barbecue. So we got to avoid those.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 0:36

You are super bright today.

Dr. Troy Fox: 0:39

Yeah.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 0:40

I just, I got to get the volume right here. Okay. I think we're good. Everybody.

Dr. Troy Fox: 0:44

I'm just a bright individual.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 0:45

You're just, yeah, you're glowing today. I, one of the first pitfalls. I think is a lack of vision and goals. Can you imagine trying to drive through practice, trying to create success without having some kind of vision and some action steps and strategies and goals to go along with it?

Dr. Troy Fox: 1:05

No, I've, and here's the thing. I have never done it that way. So I wouldn't even know how lost I would feel, but we've talked to people that have done that. And still to this day continue and they are so confused and lost because they really don't know where they're going. And sometimes that lack of vision is what I call short sighted lack of vision as well. Sometimes your goals are set for too narrow of a time frame. And you're really looking at days or weeks or months, and you're not looking at year after year, and year to date kind of things as well. So I think sometimes when we look at our goals and we set them, or we have a vision for the future, sometimes we're also short sighted on our vision.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 1:47

Yeah, we're short sighted and we really don't know why we're in practice sometimes. Why are you there? And the answer is not I'm here to adjust patients. You are, but that's not really your vision. Your vision is about your purpose. Your why do you do what you do? And where are you trying to take that? What is. What's the practice look like in 10, 15, 20 years, maybe longer if you just started in practice, where is that vision taking you? Because without a vision, without something to set your sights on, you just, you can't go anywhere. And if you don't have those goals, which are really, your goals are really just a list of, Things that you want, whether it's, great lifestyle, health, a fantastic practice, a new car, whatever, you've got to have those goals so that you've got those stepping stones to make success happen.

Dr. Troy Fox: 2:37

And if you don't speak it, it's not going to happen. That's you know, there's always somebody that, a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then, and a lot of times when we're not goal setting, we don't have a vision. That's clear. We have one success and we think, okay that's how, I'm going to be successful just by blind chance. And quite frankly, blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then, but they don't find all the acorns. And so without a vision and without a forward plan, it's literally like walking around in your house in the dark, you know the layout, but it's still really easy to trip over that coffee table. It just doesn't make sense not to have a vision. I equate that in a lot of cases. We have a lot of patients that do what they live for the weekend. Thank God it's Friday, right? And that's literally their cadence. Every week is Monday through Friday. Thank God it's Friday. Monday through Friday. Thank God it's Friday. They don't really have a long term vision. They just go to work every day and they're an automaton that produces the same thing. We can become like that as chiropractors to Monday through Friday. We're an automaton. We go in and give adjustments. Yep. And unfortunately, if you do that with your head down, you're going to lose sight of what's real or why you even did what you did. You guys have spent a lot of time and effort to get to where you are. Let's capitalize on that.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 4:00

Yeah, that's exactly right. And you've got to really be watching what you're doing. If you don't have that vision out there to help be the guiding light, the guiding post, then. You your practice is going to go down and we see this all the time. And a lot of doctors don't even realize their practice is going down. They they're not managing their statistics. They're not paying attention to the numbers. They don't have any direction. There's no goals. There's no vision. Their staff doesn't, their staff just comes in every day and does tasks and nobody's working towards a common goal or common denominator at all. And it's just come in free for all. Oh, it's Friday.

Dr. Troy Fox: 4:39

It's insane. So vision is number one. What's our number two. I can't wait to hear two, three, and four, because that was a biggie right there.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 4:46

That's a biggie, but there's big ears coming up. I just made up a word. Big ears. So before we do that, we're going to jump to a word from our sponsor. We'll be right back.

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Dr. Michael Perusich: 5:57

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the KC ChiroPulse podcast. Dr. Troy and I are talking about the four pitfalls. You absolutely must avoid to be able to see huge success in life and in practice. And the first one was a lack of vision and goals. You have to avoid that. That's just hopefully that makes sense to everybody. And I just want to say one more thing about goals. Don't set your goals so far out and so big that they're not attainable. If you set a goal that in a year, I want to grow my practice by a million dollars from where I'm at right now. That's probably pretty tough to achieve. And so those are, I call those demoralizing goals, because as you get into the year, you're going to hit about April, May, and you're going to realize there's no way we're going to hit this. That goal was worthless. I'm not doing that again. And so be very careful how you set your goals. So the pitfall number two is poor time management.

Dr. Troy Fox: 6:55

Yeah.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 6:56

Big one.

Dr. Troy Fox: 6:57

Yeah, that's, that is big. And if you are in a busy practice, which we hope you are, and if you're not busy, we hope you're getting busier, but you have to manage your time because you're being pulled multiple different directions. One of my big pitfalls with time management, which thankfully my staff is really good about and they know that I'm horrible at this is double and triple booking myself. I tell people, oh yeah, I can do that. I have had a head. Hop around the corner and say, doc, you realize that you have blah, blah, blah on that day. They literally are listening to me and they will correct me mid sentence before I make a commitment to somebody, Because I have people that come in that maybe are with the chamber or maybe they've got a big event That they're in charge of in the town that we're in. And they say, Hey doc, can you do blah, blah, blah? Oh yeah. Yeah. Not a problem. And then realize that I'm double booking myself. So that's one thing with time management, but I think we get really befuddled when it comes to trying to get things done in our practice as well. I see this all the time where you get mired down. You've been in practice for 10 years and the things that you were wanting to get done. In year one, you're still working on because you didn't have a vision and a goal. You didn't set any action steps to do it, and now you're managing your time poorly because you get to the end of every day. And you're like, I'm tired. I'll do that next week.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 8:22

Exactly. And so you've got to set priorities. You've got to, and I can tell everybody how I do it. I keep a list. I'm a list maker and I. I have my list every day and there's two columns and a column and a B column, a column gotta get done today. B column. They move over to the a column when there's room. So I don't overload the a column. There are things that have to get done every day. And I see people do this all the time. Everything on the list is an a priority. It's not. So you have to go through and to properly use your time every day. I have to make sure that you're prioritizing things correctly. And here's another example. If you think you want to see 50 patient visits a day, for example, but you're only managing your time to be able to see 35 and then you're disappointed at the end of the day because you didn't hit 50 that's on you. So you've got to look at your capacity and your time management, how long you're taking to do things. And here's a great exercise. If you're not making what you want to make, I want you to right now, as long as you're not driving right now, write down the number, write down that number. What do you want to make a year? A hundred thousand, 150, 000. I don't care what it is. Then take your collection visit average and divide that number you wrote down by your collection visit average. That's how many patients you need to see in a year. Or if you did, this is how much I want to make a month. That's how many you need to see in a month. But sometimes there's a reality check there, Oh, that's seven times the number of patients I'm seeing now. And so to be able to manage time and I realize you can't really manage time, but to use time better, you've got to really think about how much time do I spend on everything I do? How much time am I spending on? Adjusting patients, talking to patients, how long is my exam, how long is my report of findings, how am I blocking my time every day so that I can maximize my potential and that's really what proper use of time is all about is maximizing your potential, maximizing the clock to maximize your potential.

Dr. Troy Fox: 10:33

And for, for a day to work as well as it should, you're going to have to delegate some things. I see way too many of you docs that try to be chief cook, bottle washer and janitor all at the same time. Oh, I don't want my staff to have to clean that bathroom or whatever that might be. Listen, we're all together in this as a team. There's times that I'm tearing pieces of equipment apart, throwing pads back on, trying to get stuff done. There's also times that I may have staff running to go grab, Hey, grab a cordless drill and get a couple of screws and put that, paper towel holder up or whatever. They may not even know how to do it, but I'm like, Hey, it'll be a great learning experience. We can have fun with it, but delegate things. And there's other things that have to be delegated. Let's think of it this way. Docs. I see some of you that want to go adjust a patient, walk them over to therapy, put them on therapy. And then take them off of therapy and you have people available that can do it, but you don't trust them to do it. So either a train people so you can delegate or B if they're already trained, start delegating some of the jobs that you do. Your patients will appreciate it as well because you're going to have more time for what you do best, which is be a doctor, not

Dr. Michael Perusich: 11:45

be

Dr. Troy Fox: 11:45

a therapist.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 11:46

Exactly. So you can parlay your time by doing what Troy just said, by training your staff, communicating with your staff and making sure everybody's on the same page and working together. And you're right. There are times when you may have to take the trash out. Yeah. And that's fine. That's being a team player. So we're not talking about delegating everything or in times of necessity that you're not going to do some of those things. But if you're in Troy's example, adjusting the patient, doing the therapy on them, and then walking them to the front desk to make the next appointment, come on, that's not proper use of your time. You could have adjusted to more people and that maximizes your potential. So there are huge benefits in really making sure that you're managing your time.

Dr. Troy Fox: 12:36

For sure.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 12:37

Okay. Are you ready for pitfall? Number three?

Dr. Troy Fox: 12:40

Oh, I

Dr. Michael Perusich: 12:40

am. I am. This is a big one. This is a huge one, man. Sorry. Neglecting professional development for you and your staff.

Dr. Troy Fox: 12:53

Yeah, that's big. And we see that a lot, which shocks me, they're okay. There's the docs that just don't get their professional development done and they get caught by the state and they get. They have to go back and do it and provide to the state, but beyond the required X number of hours in your state, you guys need to be doing professional development well above and beyond. And that's where consulting coaching comes into play because we go into things that maybe aren't hours that you're going to get credit for, but they're invaluable to your practice.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 13:30

Yeah. Part of professional development isn't just your CEUs. It's headspace. It's learning new things. It's. Understanding business better. It's understanding human psychology better and all those things, how to manage your staff better. You don't get CEU credits for that stuff,

Dr. Troy Fox: 13:48

but putting together a cohesive team. When you and your staff get together and learn together, they get to know you and what's in this head space. And they absolutely respect you so much more because they understand you and they get you and they get your passion. If you can portray that to your staff. That's where professional development comes together from a staff standpoint is you guys become a tight unit.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 14:12

Yeah. So here's a great exercise to do in a staff meeting to see how engaged your staff is. Ask them, what are the chiropractic techniques that I use in the office? If they know, that's great, but I can tell you from experience, we've called around sometimes doctor's offices and your staff doesn't know. I don't know.

Dr. Troy Fox: 14:33

Let me ask the doctor. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 14:39

Yeah. So that's one. Here's another one. What conditions do you treat? Or what conditions is chiropractic good for? And they may know a couple, but I bet you they don't know very many unless you've got a really good job of professionally developing them. Do they know what each other's job is? What is their job function? And this is a big one. And we already talked about this, but it rolls back into professional development. Do they know what your vision is for the clinic and do they buy into it?

Dr. Troy Fox: 15:06

Yeah.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 15:07

Are they that engaged that they buy into it? So just, those are fun things to do in your staff meetings, an eye opener.

Dr. Troy Fox: 15:13

If they don't know your vision, which I think is the, I think that's the corner post or, the cornerstone of everything that you do before you start teaching them, here's the conditions I treat carpal tunnel, low back pain, neck pain, whatever, before I get to that point, I want them to know why I'm there. What is my, why, right? You've got to know what that vision looks like and what's your mission in life. My mission in life is to get people better and keep them better. It's really simple, but my staff needs to know that I, that's what I want. My staff needs to know that my goal in life is not just to get people out of pain. Exactly. My staff knows that up front day 1, when they start working with me, I tell them day 1 and then we'll usually when we've got new staff members, we'll have a little round table discussion. And then I ask questions and I ask them if they have questions of me and they always do no matter what. They've what they've gained over time as their headspace increases, their questions get more technical and they want a deeper knowledge. And that's how you know that you've built a cohesive staff. The other day, my staff came to me and said, Hey, doc, we'd like to talk to you about blah, blah, blah with decompression. Okay, we have an idea, blah, blah, blah. And I went, Whoa. That's really cool. You guys have been thinking about this and they came up with a solution to a problem that we had. It had to do with a piece of equipment that actually broke and they had a solution to a problem that worked. And not only did it work, my patients came back and said, you know what, I like what we just did better. That's awesome. Staff did that. I was so proud. I was so proud of them. It was so awesome.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 16:58

Here's the other thing that comes out of professional development when you keep notching them up, all of a sudden they're bringing you patients. Hey doc bill walked in today and he said his heels were hurting him. Could that be plantar fasciitis? I set him up for an exam so you can look at it. When your staff's doing that kind of stuff for you, man, all you got to do is show up and be the doctor. Yeah, it's great. And your practice grows and grows. So if you're out there thinking that professional development, you don't have time, it's not worth the money staff just going to leave anyway. First off, professional development is one of the things that makes them stay.

Dr. Troy Fox: 17:36

Yeah. So

Dr. Michael Perusich: 17:37

it's worth the investment. Number two, a higher, a more highly engaged and trained staff is going to help you grow your practice because they're going to become your success partners. So it's well worth the time and the energy and the very little bit of money it costs you to do it.

Dr. Troy Fox: 17:53

That's a whole different podcast right there. Staff development, because that is one of the most important things that you're going to do in your practice to make it skyrocket. So that's for another podcast, another time.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 18:07

So we're going to take a quick word from our sponsor. We'll be right back, but we're talking about the four pitfalls that you absolutely have to avoid as a chiropractor to have a successful practice and a successful life. So we'll be right back.

18:22

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Dr. Michael Perusich: 18:39

All right, everybody. Welcome back to the KC Chiro Pulse podcast brought to you by Kats consultants and Chiro health USA. Troy, we've talked about three of the pitfalls. We've talked about lack of vision and goals. We've talked about poor time management or poor use of your time and neglecting professional development. Here's number four. Here's number four. I think these actually got put in order now that I think about it. Number four is ignoring. Work life balance. Boom. Mic drop. Huge. Huge. I see a major problem in our profession right now. I'm seeing a growing number of doctors burning themselves out and it's right here. It's because they're ignoring that work life balance. You can't just work work. And I know EHR and electronic health records and all that has made our jobs a little bit more tedious. I get that. But docs, you got to turn the lights out and walk out the door sometimes too.

Dr. Troy Fox: 19:40

And

Dr. Michael Perusich: 19:40

wait, and I'm not telling you to get behind on your notes, but you've got to find that work life balance. And there are ways to create that. In fact, we're helping doctors do that all the time in just retooling their practices just a little bit in certain areas in certain ways so that they're not a slave to the practice.

Dr. Troy Fox: 19:59

And here's the crazy thing. I see some people that use that as a badge of honor. We have we have a potential client that actually had talked to us and I started following what he was doing on Facebook and I see this post. That is in his practice on Saturday evening at 10 o'clock treating a patient because darn it. He's this awesome chiropractor in the town that he lives in. And I'm like, okay, maybe that's not the image that you really want to give. A, how did they get ahold of you on Saturday? It's admirable, but how'd they get ahold of you on Saturday? And. Was this a condition that could have been treated on Friday? I see this often and my own cousin, I'm going to tell you the story, my own cousin, horrible. Horrible situation. He thought it was funny because he had a chiropractor in the town that he lived in, that he was able to go see this chiropractor and his own business. He ended up, he owned a business that he could go see this chiropractor whenever he wanted. What did he do? He thought it was really entertaining to basically get this chiropractor to give up his lunch hour, because that way, when he came to town to go grab his lunch, he got lunch. Then it go get adjusted because it didn't cut into his day.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 21:24

Do you want to give your cousin's phone number out over the year? I

Dr. Troy Fox: 21:27

should. Yeah. We should probably probably get some pieces of garden hose and beat him with them. But I, when I heard that, I thought, you know what the problem is, some of us are so desperate to put forth an image. That we're a part of our community and we're wanted and needed. And we're this great guy or gal that we're willing to do stuff like that. I think you have to draw a line in the sand when it comes to that, because I think we, we get way overboard on that. And then you end up burning yourself out. Now, how can I tell you that? Because I speak from experience, those of you that know me have heard my burnout story and what happened to me. Yeah. It's called just one more. And you know what? I was super successful. People couldn't understand why I got burned out, wanted to leave practice because just one more. Even my staff was getting burned out with me. They were so tired of me. Just one mooring everything. Hey, let's add another 15 minute slot to the end of the day. Just one more.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 22:33

Yeah.

Dr. Troy Fox: 22:34

Let's start earlier in the morning. Just one more. Yeah. Next thing we were seeing over a hundred patient visits a day and I was miserable. Absolutely.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 22:43

Absolutely.

Dr. Troy Fox: 22:45

And you know what? I wanted to add more hours, more days and maybe another satellite clinic. What is the matter with me?

Dr. Michael Perusich: 22:52

Just 1 more. And there's no work life balance to that. None. None. I can tell you another story. A doctor. So his clinic hours were something like eight 30 to noon and two to five. Okay. So reasonable. Yeah. Just go with that. Yeah. So he would show up to the clinic about half hour before they open and he'd unlock the front door. His patients started figuring that out. And so instead of opening at eight 30, he's now got patients starting at eight.

Dr. Troy Fox: 23:23

So what

Dr. Michael Perusich: 23:23

does he do? I need that half hour before patients come. So we start showing up at seven 30. front door. Oh boy. Now we start seeing patients an hour before they're actually open. So what does he do? He starts coming in another half hour earlier and unlocks the front door. His theory was, if I'm at the clinic, I should have the door open. No, you have to have boundaries. You're showing up a half hour early because you got things to do before they open. You open, so sweet don't unlock the door and lock the door at night when it's time to be done. Sweet. Dude's going to end up adjusting me at 3 a. m. before it's over. That's exactly where he was headed. That's exactly where he was headed,

Dr. Troy Fox: 24:11

And we laugh about this, but I really worry about you guys when your work life balance is off because I've been there because I did it. Dr. Perusich, unfortunately watched me go through this. And it was horrifying. Here I am a very successful doctor with a very successful practice and patients that were devastated. When I left practice,

Dr. Michael Perusich: 24:37

yeah, you were in the abyss,

Dr. Troy Fox: 24:39

I wanted to chew my own leg off to get out of there and it's all because of work life balance. I could have backed off a little bit. I could have changed what I did. I could have probably gone to more of a cash basis practice because part of it was the burnout from insurance, but you've got to have work life balance folks. Your marriage will be happier for it. Your kids will actually remember you as a mom or a dad. Yeah, that's so important. That's way more important on the family and spiritual side. That's way more important than what you're doing in chiropractic. Even though chiropractic is really important and probably way more important than many other jobs on this planet. It's not more important than your family

Dr. Michael Perusich: 25:19

and think about what do you want on your tombstone? Because you know what? We're all headed there someday. Pepperoni, right? Do Good one. Do you want, on your headstone, do you want it to say, notice I changed the headstone? Yeah. Do you want it? Do you want it to say he was a great doctor and saw patients at 10:00 PM on Saturday night? Or do you want it to start off with, he was a kind, loving father, husband, and giver to the community. What sounds better? What's the legacy you wanna leave behind? And I'm gonna have one more thing in here, and this is a huge pet peeve of mine. I hear doctors say all the time, I can't ever leave the practice. If I leave, my patients will go somewhere. I'll lose all that revenue if I try to take a vacation, blah, blah, blah. Excuse after excuse, stop. Stop, if you don't know how to manage your schedule so you can take a vacation, you better become a client because seriously, that's crazy. We recommend that doctors should take one week, a quarter off four weeks a year. Yeah. Some of you just passed out, but there's a way to do it and not lose your revenue and maintain

Dr. Troy Fox: 26:32

your sanity. And I liked the way you said that because we're not telling you to go to the Caribbean four weeks out of the year and spend a bunch of money. I just took a staycation. I loved it. I was in my backyard. I got a bunch of stuff done. I went and played some golf every day, but I took a staycation and it was so relaxing and so fun. But doing that once a quarter will keep you from getting burnt out. You know what it also does? It's a benefit to your patients because you come back with a fire in your belly. You're

Dr. Michael Perusich: 27:03

ready to go. And if you have great relationships with your patients, they're going to love it, that you're gone and they're going to want to hear about your trip. And Four times a year, you should be spending time with your family and your friends and doing those things that entrepreneurs, we got to start thinking like that, that entrepreneurs do. That's one of the benefits of owning your own business. And if you don't own your own business, that's okay. You still need to be taking time off. Maybe you don't get four weeks a year if you're an associate and an employee or something. But you know, take what you can because that's another one of those things that helps you create work life balance.

Dr. Troy Fox: 27:42

It's a sabbatical and you need it.

Dr. Michael Perusich: 27:44

Amen. Amen. Okay. So the four pitfalls that you have to avoid lack of vision. I'm going to say this a different way. The four things you have to do to create success and life balance are you have to have a vision and goals. Attainable goals. You have to know how to manage your time. You cannot neglect professional development for you and your staff, and you have to put an emphasis on creating work life balance. And go out of your way to create it.

Dr. Troy Fox: 28:17

And these are all things that you could start doing today. It's so it's this isn't something out of your range. It doesn't cost you anything to do this. They're just things that you have to do to be successful. Every successful entrepreneur, whether it's a chiropractor or otherwise does these things. Yep. They avoid the pitfalls of not following through on those areas. So get with it today, start following through. And if you need help with it. You need to get ahold of

Dr. Michael Perusich: 28:44

us. Yeah. Get ahold of us. Go to Kats consultants. com. If you haven't done so yet, we've got all kinds of great downloads on there. You can see what we're doing with clients. And if you want to schedule a breakthrough call with us, you can jump on my calendar right there on the website. And let's just talk about your practice. We do those for free. And why do we do them? Because. Our vision at Kats if you will, our vision is to help more and more doctors develop successful practices so they can take chiropractic to more and more patients. That's our whole goal is just to help you have a successful practice and help more people enjoy the chiropractic lifestyle. All right, everybody. As always, we appreciate you listening. We're growing like crazy in our podcast. That's because you guys, so thank you. Be sure to subscribe, share, and tell everybody about the show. And if you have ideas on topics that you want us to talk about, shoot them Troy Kats consultants. com. We'd love to get you on the air and talk about, not talk about you, talk about whatever you want us to talk about. We won't even say your name if you don't want us to. All right, everybody from all of us here at Kats consultants, Thanks for tuning in this week. We'll see you next time. See you later.

29:58

You